Curse

TheGizzy · Mar 24, 2011, 10:02 PM // 22:02

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ghost Dog

You would have to be incredibly naive or just argumentative to think they will draw the line here.

That's only applicable if the person believes they've already crossed the line previously set... and so far, there's no consensus on that.

Personally, I'd like to see some links referencing this original model outlined by ANet that everyone keeps referring to. I'd like to see the wording, their wording - not player's interpretation or paraphrasing of same. I'd like to see the original text/assurances which some players here feel has been violated.

Gabs88 · Mar 24, 2011, 10:12 PM // 22:12

Nobodys ever gonna use heroes for serious speedclear builds.

X Dr Pepper X · Mar 24, 2011, 10:30 PM // 22:30

All these people coming into this thread completely missing the point of the topic need go to college and take a logic class.

Can they not read or are they literally just that awful at argumentation?

Gli · Mar 24, 2011, 10:46 PM // 22:46

Since the point of this thread was to ask people for opinions, I don't think logic is required here.

Golgotha · Mar 24, 2011, 11:20 PM // 23:20

Quote:

Originally Posted by X Dr Pepper X

All these people coming into this thread completely missing the point of the topic need go to college and take a logic class.

Can they not read or are they literally just that awful at argumentation?

They'd rather argue over the amount of advantage being insignificant, ignoring the fact that it still exists. Muddying the waters by moving the goal posts is a long standing internet tradition.

Gli · Mar 24, 2011, 11:36 PM // 23:36

Quote:

Originally Posted by Golgotha

They'd rather argue over the amount of advantage being insignificant, ignoring the fact that it still exists. Muddying the waters by moving the goal posts is a long standing internet tradition.

You do realize that this thread submits the notion that they're selling in-game advantages as a fact, and that the OP is solliciting for opinions on that fact, right? So, 'arguing over the amount of advantage being insignificant' is exactly the point. The goal posts are fine where they are.

I guess trying to be clever at the expense of other people is also a long standing internet tradition, right?

novawhiz · Mar 24, 2011, 11:51 PM // 23:51

Quote:

Originally Posted by X Dr Pepper X

All these people coming into this thread completely missing the point of the topic need go to college and take a logic class.

Can they not read or are they literally just that awful at argumentation?

could not agree more.

Its getting tired having people post the same stupid, inappropriate comments here over and over again that completely miss the point of this discussion.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gabs88

It's not the fcking big difference people make it up to be. You can complete the ENTIRE game without using mercenary heroes!

You can stop whining now, only reason you cant do X item on the list above is because youre not trying hard enough and suck at the game!

Quote:

Originally Posted by Daesu

Then answer this, does having merc heroes gain you any advantage in this game? NO! Because so far the best hero builds do NOT require merc heroes, unless somebody can prove otherwise.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Daesu

But for MH, nobody has shown that it has such an advantage over using just standard heroes. If you say they are the same thing, then prove it.

For example, if you can prove:

a) Best timing from the community for clearing DoA HM with just standard heroes, without cons, using a warrior, is 2 hours.

b) Best timing from the community for clearing DoA HM with merc heroes, without cons, using a warrior, is 1 hour.

If you can show that vast disparity, then you have proven that MH does give an unfair advantage. If you can't, then you can't say that they do.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Daesu

The heroes forum showed that the best build combinations can be done through standard heroes.

Show me a pve achievement that can only be done by exploiting merc heroes, and can't be done through using only standard heroes.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Captain Bulldozer

I don't have a screen shot atm, but doing FoW with 7 heroes is very doable in under 2 hours. In fact, the average time is about 1.5 hours as near as I can tell. For some of these trips I used the standard issue heroes, for a few towards the end I used some merc heroes. I didn't see a big difference.

Just some of the dumbest comments that keep getting reworded and reposted here.

I keep trying, but i dont get how to convey to these people that this argument isn't about their idea of the fastest hero setup clearing an area vs a MH hero setup clearing an area. It has nothing to do with pvwiki or gwguru hero section forum or screenshots people are posting. It has nothing to do with whether you think 7 necros is a great idea or a retarded idea. It has nothing to do with people with MH somehow being able to do something in the game that people with heroes can't.

The entire point of the argument is that Anet is now selling something that directly affects pve gameplay. No one cares if you think 5 mesmers is a good or bad idea. No one cares if the best screenshot you've seen for DoA with heroes is X minutes and with MH is X+Y minutes. No one cares if you can beat the entire game without MH. No sht...you could best the entire game without MH, without heroes, without henchman, without pve skills, without core skills, without elite skills, whatever. None of that has anything to do with anything.

I keep trying over and over to get in people's heads what we are discussing here, but still every other post is "prove that MH are faster" or "i dont think a MH setup is better than this hero setup" or "you can beat the game without them, stop whining".

If you are going to argue like a 5 year old, please just leave your comments to your self. Its getting really annoying have to sift through the intelligent counter-arguments and just the retarded rehashing over simplifications and generalizations.

Gli · Mar 25, 2011, 12:13 AM // 00:13

Quote:

Originally Posted by novawhiz

The entire point of the argument is that Anet is now selling something that directly affects pve gameplay.

No it isn't.

The point of this thread is to gather opinions on this particular paid feature. The OP specifically prompted people to chime in on whether or not they feel the feature offers an unfair advantage.

The dumb posts are the ones saying: "Oh no! They're selling something that directly affects PVE gameplay" because that was the kicking-off point for this thread, not some brilliant deduction only you and some other non-dumb, non-retarded, non-five-year-old posters arrived at.

Gabs88 · Mar 25, 2011, 12:16 AM // 00:16

And noone cares youre a dumb little 15 year old without acess to money or a credit card. What pisses me off the most is how people keep whining about how much better mercenary heroes is compared to not having them.

The ONLY times mercenary heroes give a clear cut advantage is in these two situations:
You play a ritualist yourself and therefore need another mesmer to fill the SoS spot in your team.
Youre doing DoA with heroes.

This game is made to MAKE MONEY, if this game doesnt make MONEY! There will be no further developments made to the game!

In other words, if they dont make extra money by gaining new customers and current customers buying mercenary hero packs and other things from the ingame store. There wont be any new dervish patches, there wont be a future ranger patch, there wont be any new skill balances. There wouldnt be any Guild Wars Beyond.

Little shites that dont pay dont get this, they dont get that these new services are made to keep you playing. And to keep you interested in the game so you spend more money

TheGizzy · Mar 25, 2011, 12:28 AM // 00:28

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gabs88

In other words, if they dont make extra money by gaining new customers and current customers buying mercenary hero packs and other things from the ingame store. There wont be any new dervish patches, there wont be a future ranger patch, there wont be any new skill balances. There wouldnt be any Guild Wars Beyond.

Maybe this is why it doesn't bother me... I figure all those people buying up those merc packs are ensuring that somewhere down the road, my elementalist gets a little love from ANet... that the free GW: Beyond content rocks my world... that the servers stay on so I can keep on keeping on.

Then again, I wouldn't care if they started selling the holybejeebus sword of all-slaying, either. At least THAT would be something everyone could agree actually affects game play. I'm still not seeing proof that merc heroes add anything but a convenience factor.

And I'm still not seeing links referencing this original business model which ANet has supposedly turned their back on with the introduction of merc packs.

Dzjudz · Mar 25, 2011, 01:29 AM // 01:29

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gabs88

This game is made to MAKE MONEY, if this game doesnt make MONEY! There will be no further developments made to the game!

In other words, if they dont make extra money by gaining new customers and current customers buying mercenary hero packs and other things from the ingame store. There wont be any new dervish patches, there wont be a future ranger patch, there wont be any new skill balances. There wouldnt be any Guild Wars Beyond.

Little shites that dont pay dont get this, they dont get that these new services are made to keep you playing. And to keep you interested in the game so you spend more money

Again with the 'they need money or gw1 goes offline tomorrow' argument. They've had costumes for a good while now and I would think they're doing pretty good business with them. I know they've had plenty of money from me (have all costumes). Where is your source that they need Merc money to stay online?

X Dr Pepper X · Mar 25, 2011, 01:36 AM // 01:36

Idiots being idiots.

How can you talk to them?
How can we have a civil and rational argument?

Gli · Mar 25, 2011, 01:41 AM // 01:41

It sure as hell doesn't start with calling people idiots. Civil and rational arguments seem wasted on you.

novawhiz · Mar 25, 2011, 01:46 AM // 01:46

Quote:

Originally Posted by X Dr Pepper X

Idiots being idiots.

How can you talk to them?
How can we have a civil and rational argument?

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gabs88

The ONLY times mercenary heroes give a clear cut advantage is in these two situations:
You play a ritualist yourself and therefore need another mesmer to fill the SoS spot in your team.
Youre doing DoA with heroes.

not even 30 minutes after my final plea lol.

Mr. Pepper, didn't you know the only time you would possibly want to use MH is when your a ritualist or when your doing DoA? It never occured to me but i guess that makes 100% perfect sense. Why would i ever need MH in any other area of guildwars or on any other my other 9 professions? Suddenly it all makes sense now.

Such enlightening and productive discussions we are having, no?

TheGizzy · Mar 25, 2011, 01:47 AM // 01:47

Quote:

Originally Posted by X Dr Pepper X

Idiots being idiots.

How can you talk to them?
How can we have a civil and rational argument?

Perhaps by not insulting the people you're arguing with? That's always a good start.

Saint Scarlet · Mar 25, 2011, 02:02 AM // 02:02

Insulting other peoples opinions and posts is not the best way to have a debate. If everyone wants to discuss what the problem we see is, that's fine. But please do not resort to calling people idiots.
A quote i can half remember "Everything that people say is idiotic, especially when their opinion matters to them and not you". And yes it's meant to be ironic that the guy is calling himself an idiot too.

So please lay off the insults and get back to the discussion in hand.

X Dr Pepper X · Mar 25, 2011, 02:20 AM // 02:20

Quote:

Originally Posted by novawhiz

Mr. Pepper, didn't you know the only time you would possibly want to use MH is when your a ritualist or when your doing DoA? It never occured to me but i guess that makes 100% perfect sense. Why would i ever need MH in any other area of guildwars or on any other my other 9 professions? Suddenly it all makes sense now.

Yeah, there are so few applications where Merc heroes are more efficient than normal heroes.

It's not like there are millions more possible team builds added by Merc heroes, therefore, I think it's safe to say that we can nullify them all, and write them off as being more efficient because they are no more desirable than normal heroes.

Because that's the case right?

Improvavel · Mar 25, 2011, 02:21 AM // 02:21

Merc Heroes, like 7 heroes aren't advantages.

They are a way of allowing players that play alone to enjoy the same basic game mechanics that those that are able/choose to party with at least another person enjoy.

The game is based on parties of 8 characters, human or AI, with 8 skills bars with 8 skills that can be chosen from the pool of skills wearing 5 pieces of armor that can be customized and 2 weapon slots.

Not being able to fully customize the skills bars and the 8 profession slots from the moment parties of player + 7 AI are allowed is changing the fundamental game mechanics.

Full skill bar customization is fixed with the free 7 hero updated. Full party customization is fixed with the payed merc heroes.

Since merc heroes didn't exist they are new content. New content added is free or paid at Anet discretion.

ogre_jd · Mar 25, 2011, 02:23 AM // 02:23

Quote:

Originally Posted by novawhiz

The entire point of the argument is that Anet is now selling something that directly affects pve gameplay.

They've been doing that long before Mercenary Heroes, and to a far greater game-changing effect.

novawhiz · Mar 25, 2011, 02:28 AM // 02:28

Quote:

Originally Posted by ogre_jd

They've been doing that long before Mercenary Heroes, and to a far greater game-changing effect.

yeah, and ive been annoyed with them, but some rinky dinky fire imps that helps pre-lovers is no where near as game affecting as Mercenary Heroes.